Oh man oh man oh man. What an episode and great for discussion!! Okay as you know...watch out!! Spoilers below.
"When you're that good at something, there are always going to be people who tempt you into staying the same."
This episode filled in a few gaps....we learned that Ben just sort of dumped Sayid, (and didn't Sayid look like he was happy? He actually saw Ben and smiled. Kind of weird, really considering his state of mind at the end of The Economist), Ilana is a bounty hunter (not the police), Ben told Sayid exactly what he is, (a killer), and Sayid rejected Ben's offer to do more killing after finding some peace, I guess, in the Dominican Republic.
Back in Dharma la la land, Juliet tells Sawyer that playing house is over, Kate seems surprised that Sawyer moved on with his life in THREE YEARS, Jack is totally laid back, Juliet is awesome and doesn't actually tell Kate to stay away like the promo monkeys made us think, and everyone wants to kill Sayid! What?!? Sawyer tries to get Sayid to go along with his plan, but Sayid doesn't want to lie and do it. So then he goes to the torturer and tells them everything...they think they gave him too much of the drug. That whole scene was very amusing. In any case, that's when they decide after a heartfelt plea for baby Ethan's safety from Amy, they need to kill Sayid.
But first....behold! A burning van! Sawyer grumps that the LOSTies have been back for 1 day and all this drama breaks out. Ben releases Sayid, they run out into the wood together, and Jin finds them.
But it's too late. See, Sayid is filled with purpose at this point. He knows why he was brought back to the god-forsaken island. He knocks Jin out, gets his gun and says to young Ben...you were right about me. I am a killer. And even though he's filled with anguish...he shoots.
LOST
Man! This is really hard for me to swallow. I've always known Sayid was a torturer and a killer but killing a child????? Plus, he always seemed conflicted, but now it's like he's accepted his lot in life is merely to kill. Man, man, man. Plus, this episode did a pretty good job of making the child Ben seem vulnerable and sympathetic. It would really take a killer to get the job done.
I don't feel like I know exactly how Sayid got to feeling about Ben as he does. I don't see enough reason that he would kill the child, unless he was simmering in anger down there in the DR for all that time. I'm hoping there's more to that story, to help me believe.
A few things to think about...when Sayid asked about Ben to Sawyer, Sawyer was pretty casual about it all. It would really have helped for them to you know, have talked about what had happened in the 3 years they'd been apart. But no.
Sawyer has really drunk the Dharma kool-aid hasn't he?
I think Kate thought she'd have a chance with Sawyer? Well, she probably does.
Can the writers redeem the character of Sayid? It was really hard to watch one of my favorite characters shoot a child. Especially since whatever happened happened...Sayid can't change the future and in fact, probably played a huge role in shaping the Ben we all love to hate.
So here's my discussion question for you....I asked it on Twitter right after I finished watching...
If you had a chance to kill Hitler as a child, knowing all the evil and destruction he brought into the world...would you have?
I'm really interested in how this will all play out...what's to come?
Thursday, March 26, 2009
LOST Recap and Discussion: He's Our You
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19 comments:
I had the feeling that Sayid would try to kill child Ben. Can't wait to see how they're going to explain this one.
I also believe that what Faraday said about not being able to change the past will come into play. But then again, after the flashes stopped and "the record stopped skipping" he did say it doesnt really matter what they do now. I also think to have mini ben die would cause too great a change and they'd have to go back and show how the first 4 seasons happened differently. I think they have too many creative ideas to waste episodes and remaking what weve seen already.
Yeah, that was pretty shocking. I didn't have that much sympathy for Ben because...he's Ben! But as to your question: no I don't think I could do that but I'm not Sayid. I hope he gets his inner softness back. I like sorrowful Sayid not killer Sayid.
I don't think Ben will die. I'm with Faraday: you can't change what's already happened or whatever. It's confusing.
Sawyer is totally Dharma which is understandable but...I'm getting tired of the Dharma people. Let's wrap that up and get on with things.
I don't think Ben is dead. It was hard to watch him shoot him, but I'm still in love with Sayid...so what does that say about me? Not sure, but it probably means I should seek counciling..LOL I think getting shot is what makes Ben become Ben. I think once he recovers he will plot to kill everyone. Other and hostile alike. I think this is why he goes to Sayid in the future and has him do all of his dirty work.
To answer your question, no I wouldn't kill Hitler as a child. I would try to teach him to be different.
Must stay away from all "Lost" discussions - not able to watch this season and trying to hold out till it comes out on DVD. (This is soooo hard!)
For some reason, gunshots wounds on the Island don't necessarily mean death. If Ben is really dead, how will this change the future - the future we've already seen? I just don't know what to think.
And did anyone else notice that the "He's Our You" guy is Larry from The Newhart Show? Remember: "I'm Larry and this is my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl"?
Also, remind me to never eat a sandwich on the Island!!!
It took me a while to recognize the "he's our you" guy, but he's also E.B. Farnum from Deadwood. The voice is what tipped me off - something about the way he says "friend."
Wow-what a great question! I doubt that I could kill anyone, even Hitler. It just isn't in me. I take spiders outside when I find them in my house. So, I guess my answer would have to be no, as horrible as that sounds.
Lost has been great so far this season! I can't wait to see where they go with all this time-travel stuff.
I'm totally ignoring the Hitler question because I have no idea how to answer it. So moving on...
I loved that you and I both pointed out that Kate shouldn't really be surprised that Sawyer has moved on after 3 years. Jeez!
As for Sayid killing young Ben, I felt like he was torn up about it after, but I think he was trying to prevent all the horror that would come. The question is, did he succeed? Basically, I think Sayid would answer "yes" to your killing Hitler as a child question.
Hello fellow Lostaholic! I love your take on this episode....I almost spit out my drink with your Sawyer drinking the Dharma Koolaid comment!
I did a recap too if you feel like popping in on my world!
http://pridelandsmommy.blogspot.com/
Peace
*~Michelle~*
I don't think I would kill child Hitler, and I don't think I would kill child Ben either. As far as we've seen child Ben so far, there is nothing inherently evil in him. I feel like, historically, the same was true of Hitler. I understand why Sayid shot child Ben, but its probably not something I, coming to the situation with my background, would do. If I grew up in Iraq, in a culture that is either kill or be killed, I might.
As far as Sawyer goes, I'm liking him with Dharama. It makes sense to me that he would be more loyal to them since he's lived with them for three years now, and lived with the Losties for only 100 days. He's built a life where he's respected and trusted, something he's not had before, and why would he want to sacrifice that for people he hardly knows? Plus, I've always just liked Sawyer better than Jack. Or at least I have for a couple of seasons now.
Sayid didn't see Ben as a child; he saw him as manipulative, evil Ben in a more defenseless state. And yes, Sayid would totally be the person who'd kill child Hitler if he had a chance.
I also don't believe Ben will die, but I think it will make some subtle changes to how things happened--the question will be how the writers choose to handle those changes. After all, things have changed--the survivors of the Oceanic crash are now part of the Dharma initiative; didn't we see those group pics before, and they weren't in them?
I'm just putting this out here. If young ben does die from the gunshot then he will actually still be alive in the future. Because if young ben dies then everything he does in the future gets erased, including spinning the frozen donkey wheal. So if he never spins that wheel then sayid and everyone would never go back in time. Which means that sayid wouldn't be able to shoot him. So even if ben dies he's still alive
Sawyer definitely chugged a gallon of the Kool-aid. But I think it's because he now has the life he always wanted.
To me Ben is evil. I n fact the kid they have playing young Ben is doing a wonderful job. I had no problem w/Sayid's action. Ben has manipulated everyone and everything, even the island. He is evil (say with a scary voice)
And yes I would have killed Hitler, although there were many other circumstances that contributed to that time period (ie Treaty of Versailles). not saying it's an excuse, just that there are other things to consider.
Unfortunately, this death would mess up the time space continuum, and the Doctor would not be pleased.
I still can't believe he tried to kill him! All I could think of yesterday was, why didn't he take him with him and try to reform him? I hate the character of Ben so much that I could faintly understand why he did, but ???kill a child? You're right, he is too calmly accepting his fate as killer, which doesn't fit with his being on the Habitat for Humanity site....I still want to know what made him work for Ben (in killing off anyone who would be a threat to the island/charles )???? and what's with Sawyer? And the Others? Unless he think he has to really hide so people on the sub and Charles don't suspect he is alive.....I"m so confused!!!!! And I like Sawyer and Kate together.
PS I hate the Hitler question! I can't answer it - I just so don't believe in killing a child, in my happy world of unicorns, I think there is always a chance they can be changed for good.
Your discussion question brings up the moral dillema that Minority Report is all about. I would say no, but that is perhaps because I would give some credence to the sovereignty of God. It is not for me to judge what hasn't happened yet, but I am responsible to enact justice for what HAS happened.
Didn't Ben once say he was like John? My husband and I have been discussing the whole Ben getting shot and neither of us believe he is really dead. The shot was either non-lethal or he was healed by the island the same way John was.
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